Brazil should've been like this

they were more francophiles if anything at that time
nothing to do about anglos

Spare me of your stupid babbling dumb monkey
The elites at the time also thought the same, hence why Alves Branco instituted his tariffs in 1844. And I'm not a leftist either.

Nigger up to this day our elite rambles about muh american free market that never even existed

Nobody wants to work on this shithole and they just want to believe an utopia where they can just import everything

land reform

Impossible. The Empire's backbone was(still is really) the large land owning class.
Land reform has always been a huge taboo in Brazil, but I agree that it's the first step

It's so tiresome.
Why do someone pointing out why x happens automatically means you're a dindu?

So dumb

you know what i meant
our elites never really cared about industrialization and the few ones who did were sabotaged by the oligarchies here
i was talking about culture
the elites here used to looked after france not england
obviously since they lost a lot of their soft power the US took their place in the world

Only in culture, as was common in Britain itself.

The political and economical ideas were all anglo sucking

Actually every educated british men was expected to be fluent in french up to the end of the WWII

ok dude everything is da anglos and da CIA fault
brazilians and their elites have no responsability whatsoever
china will save all of us from them and we'll finally become first world
enjoy

Question for Huebros. Pedro II is liked by history but what is his perception in Brazil regarding the coup, consider he was basically throwing in the towel and handing the country over to the military dictatorship. Even if he was despondent about the monarchy it seems kind of neglectful and a betrayal of the people when he probably could have resisted. Although I don't know much about BR history so correct me if I'm wrong.

And after WW2?

el peruANO

I don't know honestly.
As I said, it's always so tiresome.

Recognising a problem that had external origins doesn't means we don't have internal problems.
China seethes even today about the century of humiliation, yet they developed. What do you think happened?

>abolish slavery early in 1830s with compensation + land reform

Why would he do this? To speedrun the fall of monarchy?

He was old and had poor health by then. Resisting could be done as there were many loyal elements willing to do so, but it would probably plunge the country into a protracted civil war.

Yes he kinda that threw the towel. He was disillusioned with his dynasty since he had no worthy heir(from his point of view), all his sons having died.
He was basically stuck with Isabel and her husband the Count of Eu, and he very rarely included them in state policy.

Also, ironically he could have had some republican inclinations too. But that's conjecture

It's seen as a historical transformation, we don't get emotional about it with things like "good", "bad" or "betrayal". I learned that the fall of the monarchy was the logical conclusion of the Empire emancipating slaves and alienating the planter class. Maybe kids studying these days do learn history through a moral perspective instead of cause-consequence but it's probably from the woke point of view

Maybe kids studying these days do learn history through a moral perspective

No, it's still the same thing as ever

Treaty of Alliance, Commerce and Friendship of 1827

Thanks I will look into it

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manuel_Alves_Branco,_2nd_Viscount_of_Caravelas

Most people are indifferent towards it and see the republican coup as just another historical transformation, as the other anon said. But people who do have an opinion (and are not larping teenagers) are often sympathetic to the monarchy and sometimes criticize the emperor for not doing anything to crush the uprising. The truth is, Pedro II was a frail old man by then and was almost completely unaware of what was happening in the capital on the day of the coup. The prime minister made a crucial mistake and sent him a telegram asking him to return to Rio, which he did on the belief that there was nothing serious to worry about. Upon learning that the republic had been proclaimed he got angry, but agreed to leave for the safety of his family. On his way to Europe he still could not believe the whole situation and said he would have resisted had he been properly informed of what was going on.

Outright freedom for everyone? Probably. If it's done gradually and with an increased European migration from Europe, it can work.

Ideally, slavery should have been abolished outright in 1824. But I think that could make us a weaker country ironically.

In 1850 two important laws were passed by the General Assembly, one abolishing the slave trade and the other that abolished the old colonial system of sesmarias, establishing that all public lands in Brazil could only be acquired through purchase from the state. The revenues from the sales would be used to promote further immigration to replace the dying slave system.

In regards to the Land Law, they could have made it so that the government would grant small plots of land to immigrants from desired countries for free. It would have a much more massive effect than the way they did it. Brazil had basically gigantic plots of unused land to spare anyway. The thing is, none of this was in the elites' interest at the time or maybe they could not foresee the consequences of their acts.

Brazil just needed a real Homestead Act, like the US Homestead Act of 1862, and people would've done the rest.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Acts

It was done gradually here and in the end it still pissed farmers off enough to end the monarchy

the Brazilian government just needed to do something completely diverse from its interests

This is how your posts sound

In regards to the Land Law, they could have made it so that the government would grant small plots of land to immigrants from desired countries for free

And local Brazilians get fucked while immigrants get things handed over to them? Fuck off

And local Brazilians get fucked while immigrants get things handed over to them?

Yes, precisely. Local Brazilians were of inferior quality when compared to immigrants. And this goes for all of them, regardless of race or social class. A nation is as great as its people.

You can fuck back from wherever you came from then. Why live under inferior people and inferior politicians in an inferior society?

Land Law was flawed since the beggining. It was a law created to appease the large landowning elite.
They appropriated massive plots of land from small farmers that had been living in the land for decades, sometimes centuries.

We had something like that unofficially before the Land Law(Lei de Terras). Before it anyone could simply become the owner of the plot of land that they worked.

He's completely right. Lima Barreto, who was pardo, recognized this in his books.

Go back to Europe, emboabas.

Most Brazillians are low IQ and have a crabs in the bucket mentality. Just look at Pedro II. The motherfucker was literally some fantasy/anime character, was emperor by 5, was high IQ, knew a gorillion languages, was well versed in several fields and loved Brazil and its culture, quite literally the most qualified leader in Brazil's existence and he was removed from power by a bunch of faggot military men for the sake of "modernizing politics" through the founding of a republic, only for said republic to lead to one of the most dogshit periods in time of brazillian history. And to top it all off, despite Pedro II being very progressive, even going as far as learning Tupi, a common brazillian indigenous language, modern day leftists hate him.

Why should I care about his opinion?

despite Pedro II being very progressive, even going as far as learning Tupi, a common brazillian indigenous language, modern day leftists hate him

Yep

And local Brazilians get fucked while immigrants get things handed over to them? Fuck off

Because there was only 10 million brazilians back then.
You needed immigration if anything to ensure the territorial integrity of the state.

I suppose you could pass a law that people needed to have "brazilian" surnames to own land in order to facilitate assimilation
You have a very limited knowledge of history.

Maybe because he was a contemporary observer of immigration, an independent intellectual and one of our best writers ever?

You live in a third world shithole today because inferior quality locals ruled the country back then instead of high quality educated peoples with a vision. Whether you're happy with this state of affairs is another conversation.

You shouldn't. Eugenics are a very flawed field of science.
In general it's just a attempt at legitimating the rule of the people at the top
Not sure this makes him a expert of genetics

respect a self-hating alcoholic modernist hack who was put in a insane asylum because he agrees with me... and he is a mulatto and since all non-immigrant Brazilians are mulattoes he is one of you or something like that whatever

Lima Barreto wrote of their superiority in terms of culture, not biology.

keep good relations with Portugal

That'a what the Bragança wanted on both sides of the Atlantic. It was the Cortes that made it impossible for a healthy partnership to exist.

abolish slavery in the early 1830s

Slavery was a compromise to keep the imperial government on the good sides of the elites. Abolishing slavery as late as 1889 was still enough to end the monarchy. Ending so many decades early would've plunged the country into multiple civil wars ans Brazilian 19th century history would've been identical to that of the rest of the region.

Wow I thought it was because of supression of manufacture and literacy combined with the self-perpetuating plantation economic structure based on semifeudal principles

it's more about culture than genetics
you can clearly notice the difference between the states and neighborhoods that received immigrants during the XX century and the other ones
japanese culture will always lead a country towards more economic development and less crimes compared to local brazilian culture from any region

And why would the people who did these things do it if not for the fact they were inferior small-minded primitives? Well, thanks for proving my point.

Yeah that's why it's stupid

japanese culture will always lead a country towards more economic development and less crimes compared to local brazilian culture from any region

Wrong. Japanese are low IQ people that knows nothing of decency or basic hygiene.
All according to XIX century eugenicists

You idiot.

Because it made them rich?
Do you think european nobles were all "inferior small-minded primitives"? Because they did the same thing and only stopped when they started being murdered by angry merchants/peasants

Our historical elites designed this system because it made the most sense in their context. Maybe if we were a frozen hole unfit for cashcrops colonized by a constitutional monarchy with a commercial class overtaking the nobility things could have gone differently

A high quality, high IQ elightened individual is capable of foreseeing the consequences of their acts beyond petty things like immediate profit. Why did Americans enact the Homestead Act if it didn't give them any immediate gains? You're once again proving me right without even realizing it.

Western european nobles only stopped when the conditions to empower the capitalist and professional middle classes arose. Peasants revolted many times but had no success before

You sound underage or just very simple minded. The homestead act (signed by LINCOLN) made sense because they were expanding west and was passed because the planter oligarchy had quit the union so free soil advocates won politically. So you have people defending their own interests doing something when there are political conditions for it

I know it hurts your ego, but the facts speak for themselves. The argentines realized they had the same flaw and filled their country with millions of immigrants. Today they have higher social indicators than Brazil in all areas.

Is Argentina really your model? If they had a population of our size with the same basic resources available they would be fucked.

i'm talking about culture
idc about XIX century eugenicists said about them
anon... i kinda agree with you
but argentina? come on

Why is it that whenever confronted with real life facts that contradcit you about this topic, the go-to "argument" you people use is always "if they were our size..."? The USA is much larger than Brazil and yet...? What now?

Also you did not say anything about the fact Argentina has better social indicators than Brazil in all areas... you just ignored it. And guess what, you didn't because you can't say anything about it, the logical conclusion hurts you and you know it. In the end the proposition remains true, a country is as great as its people. If the people are inferior trash the country will be inferior trash regardless of how much resources it has.

argentina elites are greedy clowns who made even more stupid decisions than ours
at least use another example

I've been implicitly comparing Brazilian history with American history the whole time, can't you really tell?

Argentina is a commodity dependent shithole just like Brazil, before the 2010s crisis we had even surpassed them in GDP per capita and we are now on route to surpass them again. They have better indicators because they are proportionally richer, despite being worse in some indices like wealth per adult and inflation

Kek if the emperor did a land reform and even liberated slaves while doing it he would be fucking murdered

It can't be that bad.